Find the Pit Bull

After hearing from someone who was frustrated that "grown men with children are still asking, 'but how can you identify a pit bull?'" and wondering if BSL is feasible because pit bulls are shape shifting , I decided to break down the "Find the Pit Bull" test. The fact that the pit bull community has now decided they can identify the headless corpse of a puppy as a pit bull kind of has taken the wind out of my sails, but I persevere anyway.
Click on the title to go to the original. Click on image to make it larger.
Key: 1. Boxer 2. Dogue de Bordeaux 3. Alapaha Blue Bull Dog 4. Greater Swiss Mountain Dog 5. Vizsla 6. Rhodesian Ridgeback 7. Dogo Argentino 8. Chocolate Labrador Retriever 9. Bullmastiff 10. Jack Russell Terrier 11. Fila Brasileiro 12. Rottweiler 13. Presa Canario 14. American Bulldog 15. Cane Corso 16. American Pit Bull Terrier 17. Patterdale Terrier 18. Olde English Bulldogge 19. Catahoula 20. Bull Terrier 21. Black Mouth Cur 22. Alano Espanol 23. Boerboel 24. Ca de Bou 25. Thai Ridgeback
The "Find the Pit Bull" test pretends to show us that pit bulls are virtually impossible to distinguish from other breeds. The test is intended to deceive. In short, the creator uses scarce to rare breeds that are related to the pit bull's ancestry, juvenile dogs or dogs that are atypical of the breed and pretends that using one photo is the same as seeing the actual dog. The pit bull they use as an example of a typical pit bull is a puppy, for crying out loud!
The long answer:
To trick the viewer, the creator uses the following techniques:
A. Uses photos that do not show relative size.
B. Uses photos that do not show the whole dog when body type is much different than a bully breed.
C. Uses photos of juvenile dogs that have not developed their breed specific characteristics or size.
D. Uses photos of dog breeds that are rare to non-existant in the United States making it very unlikely that the general public or animal control officers have encountered or ever will encounter these breeds
E. Inclusion of many examples of similar dogs of three breed types that are known to have been used to develop the pit bull - terriers, bulldogs and mastiffs. The last two are also themselves closely related to each other.
F. Uses photos that show an atypical or less common type of a breed.
G. Uses poor photos that don't show distinguishing characteristics of the breed or that create the illusion the breed has pit bull characteristics.
The question is: Can Animal Control Officers distinguish the breeds in the photos if presented with the actual dogs?
BOXER photos:
1. BOXER - A, B, C, E, F The first german registered BOXER was half english white bulldog. However, during the 20th century, breeders have created a decidedly distinct and unique looking dog. The BOXER in the quiz is the less common white color and the dog is a young puppy. In addition, the angle of this photo does not show the characteristic scooped break in the nose bridge.
Conclusion: In real life, an animal control officer would have no problem distinguishing a BOXER from a pit bull.
2. DOGUE DE BORDEAUX - A, B, E This is the french version of the large mastiff dog. Both bulldogs and pit bulls have been bred to mastiffs for size since the 19th century. These french mastiffs have been bred for great size (minimum 110 pounds) and a very distinctive look for most of the 20th century.
Conclusion: Animal control officers would have no problem distinguishing a DOGUE DE BORDEAUX in real life because of their size and differing body and head features.
3. ALAPAHA BLUE BULLDOG - D, E - The ALAPAHA BLUE BULLDOG is a mix of bulldog and pit bull and is described as "a well-developed, exaggerated bulldog with a broad head and natural drop ears."William Chester is described as an "Ol Pit-Bull Man" who bred alapahas that were often man aggressive. Chester's old family silver dollar recipe: catahoula x american pit bull terrier x mountain bulldog. It is absolutely true that it is often impossible to distinguish an ALAPAHA BLUE BULLDOG from an american bulldog or from an american pit bull terrier precisely because these bulldogs are a pit bull mix.
Conclusion: Any city seeking to establish BSL with regards to pit bulls should craft their legislation so that it covers all the variations of the american bulldog because american bulldogs are nothing more than a pit bull mix that have inherited physical, temperamental and behavioral traits of the pit bull.
4. GREATER SWISS MOUNTAIN DOG. A, B,D, G As you can see a photo was purposely used that hides the muzzle length of the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog and does not show the body at all. Also note the fixity of the color pattern in the GREATER SWISS MOUNTAIN DOG that is both characteristic and distinguishing.
Conclusion:Animal control officers would have no problem distinguishing a GREATER SWISS MOUNTAIN DOG in real life because of their size and differing body and head types.
Photos of VIZSLAS:
5. VIZSLA - G - Often described as looking like a red Weimeraner. They look nothing like a pit bull except that they are colored like a "red nose" pit bull. The VIZSLA rescue association was made aware that some rescues are trying to pass off red nose pit bulls as VIZSLA mixes and they were not happy about it.
Conclusion: The ridge is a dead giveaway for the dogs that possess it. And even without the ridge, the body type and ears are very different than a pit bull. Animal Control officers who see this dog in real life will have no problem distinguishing it from a pit bull.
7. DOGO ARGENTINO - A, D, E. This is considered the Argentine version of the mastiff, but it is much more closely related to the pit bull and other fighting dogs than other mastiff breeds are. 19th century bull terriers (the pit fighting dogs of the 19th century) were bred with mastiffs and bulldogs to create the fighting dog of cordoba. That is virtually the same mix of dogs that created the pit bull breeds. From the fighting dog of cordoba breeders created the larger DOGO ARGENTINO as a big game hunting dog by breeding with the great dane, pointer, bull terrier, english bulldog, dogue de bordeaux, boxer, and pyrenean mastiff. However, DOGO ARGENTINOS have also been used as fighting dogs. DOGO ARGENTINOS are in general larger, with heavier legs, and slightly smaller jaw muscles than pit bulls. Tia Torres claims she was asked to provide a white pit bull for an advertising campaign and she used this DOGO ARGENTINO for that job. Here is a man bragging that DOGO ARGENTINOS have a bite second only to the pit bull.
Conclusion: It is indeed difficult to distinguish a DOGO ARGENTINO from a pit bull because these dogs were both bred using the same foundation stock for exactly the same purpose. Any community considering BSL should write their description so that it covers DOGO ARGENTINOS despite the dogo's relative scarcity.
8. CHOCOLATE LABRADOR RETRIEVER - A, B, G - Conclusion: Animal Control when faced with arguably the most common pet dog of the 20th and 21st century will see the water dog's characteristic double coat and otter tail in no time.

9. BULLMASTIFF - A, E These dogs weigh between 110 and 130 pounds.
Conclusion: Animal Control can tell the difference between the BULLMASTIFF and a pit bull in real life.
10. JACK RUSSELL TERRIER - A, E JACK RUSSELL TERRIERS weigh between 14 -18 pounds. The only physical characteristic they share with pit bulls is terrier ears. Conclusion: No problem for Animal Control to distinguish.
11. FILA BRASILEIRO - A, B, D, E - This is known as the Brazilian Mastiff. These dogs are thankfully still fairly rare in the US. These dogs are so aggressive toward strangers that aggression toward dog show judges will not disqualify the dog and judges are advised not to touch the fila brasilieros while judging them. (Can you say best job ever?) Required temperament tests not only assume an attack, the proper attack style is prescribed. Breeders acknowledge that no FILA BRASILEIRO will be friendly with strangers. Many countries ban this breed.FILA BRASILEIRO have bloodhound in their ancestry which gave them very large drooping ears. They are also extremely large, weighing a minimum of 110 pounds. These are on breed ban lists of many countries because of their their extreme aggression.
Conclusion: If AC ever encountered a FILA BRASILEIRO, they could distinguish it from a pit bull.
12. ROTTWEILER - A,B - The photo chosen deceptively shows a less typical head. ROTTWEILERS typically have rounder faces, more loose skin around the jowls, are generally larger, have a slightly longer coat, and have a color pattern that is fairly fixed.
Conclusion: Animal Control would have no problem distinguishing a pit bull from a ROTTWEILER.
13. PRESA CANARIO - A,D, E - This is the mastiff of the Canary Islands that was , beginning in the 18th century, crossed with English fighting dogs for the purpose of dog fighting. In the 1970s PRESA CANARIOS were near extinction. The breed was revived by fanciers in the 1970s and 1980s. They are suspicious of strangers and known to be aggressive with other dogs. This is the kind of dog that killed Diane Whipple. These dogs are a minimum of 100 pounds.
Conclusion: Although these dogs are generally larger and favor their mastiff ancestry, it is indeed sometimes difficult to distinguish a PRESA CANARIO from a pit bull because PRESA CANARIOS were bred using the same foundation breeds for exactly the same purpose as the pit bull terrier. Any community considering BSL should write their description so that it covers PRESA CANARIOS.
14. AMERICAN BULLDOG - A, E - The modern American bulldog is a reconstituted breed. The old south bulldog was practically extinct by the 1950s and in an effort to bring it back, the original breeders crossed the bulldogs they could find with American pit bull terriers, boxers, and mastiffs. The Bulldog Information Library informs us that the AMERICAN BULLDOG can look like a "large, coarse, leggy white pit bull." In the 70s, some were bred for dogfighting. They are still being crossed with pit bulls from famous fighting bloodlines today. The dog used to play Petey the pit bull in the recent movie remake of Little Rascals (1994) was named Kershner's Screamer and is registered as 100% Johnson type AMERICAN BULLDOG. However, it has both american pit bull terrier and american bulldog fighting lines in its pedigree.
Conclusion: Any community considering BSL should write their description so that it covers American bulldogs because it is a pit bull mix and has inherited the same physical, temperamental and behavioral traits that make pit bulls dangerous.
CANE CORSO photos:
15. CANE CORSO - A, D, E - called the Italian mastiff, Sicillian bulldog or the Sicillain mastiff. They weigh between 80 and 160 pounds. The CANE CORSO was near extinction by the 1970's when fanciers began to redevelop the breed. The CANE CORSO came to the US in the 1980s. According to breeders' clubs they are naturally dominant dogs and will never back down from a challenge and their bite is legendary.
Conclusion: Animal Control can tell the difference between the CANE CORSO and a pit bull in real life because of their classic mastiff head, heavy build and often enormous size.
PIT BULL photos:
16. PIT BULL - A, C - The PIT BULL in the original test is a very young puppy. The next four photos are purebred examples the three breeds considered to be pit bulls. They all were bred from the same foundation stock for the same purpose - pit fighting in England during the first half of the 19th century. The first dog after the puppy is the oldest and smallest breed - the STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER. The next two dogs, the AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER, and the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER are often virtually indistinguishable. In fact, owners can dual register their dogs as AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIERS with the AKC and as AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIERS with the UKC as the dog in the last photo is.
Conclusion: PIT BULL ownership advocates like to cloud the issue by suggesting it is important to be able to distinguish one PIT BULL breed from another, however it is very clear that all of the three PIT BULL breeds closely resemble each other, are very closely related, and can all be identified as PIT BULLS by Animal Control.
17. PATTERDALE TERRIER - A, D, E - Patterdale terriers weigh between 11-16 pounds. They have been used as pit dogs and here is a link that says that many PATTERDALE TERRIERS bred in the US have "a dash of pit bull terrier in them."
Conclusion: When animal control sees a 16 pound dog, they will be able to tell the PATTERDALE TERRIER from an pit bull.
18. OLDE ENGLISH BULLDOGGE - A, D, E, F - The photo used is not only not typical of OLDE ENGLISH BULLDOGGE, I don't think it is an olde english bulldogge. Unlike the other recreated breeds, this one was very well planned and documented using a line breeding scheme based on one developed by Ohio State University for breeding cattle for a very specific look. "The goal was to recreate a specific breed of bulldogge with the look, health and athleticism of the original bull baiting dogs, but without the extreme tenacity. The foundation crosses consisted of 1/2 english bulldog, 1/6 bullmastiff, 1/6 american pit bull terrier, and 1/6 american bulldog." Unlike other recreated bulldog clubs, this club actively discourages any kind of aggressive work or training. "The club promotes obedience training and competition, agility and conformation showing, as well as therapy work." They especially encourage ARBA conformation events. In essence, they are interested in preserving a very specific look and breed for ARBA bench trials and for ARBA field trials.
19. CATAHOULA - F- Also called a catahoula cur, Louisiana catahoula dog, catahoula leopard dog. These dogs are fearless pig and cattle herding dogs that do not have a bully look to them at all. They are common in parts of the south and uncommon in other parts of the country.
Conclusion: Animal control can tell the difference between a CATAHOULA and a pit bull terrier if they ever encounter one.
20. BULL TERRIER- E, G - Bull terriers are very closely related to pit bulls, but they have been bred to have a distinctive straight profile that is deceptively not at all evident in the photo used. In fact, they were the original pit fighting dog. However, modern bull terriers are dogs that were reputedly mixed with pointers, dalmatians for the white coat and with greyhounds for the straight nose break in the late 19th century.
Conclusion: No confusion whatsoever.
21. BLACK MOUTH CUR - D, G - also known as Southern Cur, Yellow Blackmouth Cur, Blackmouth Cur, American Blackmouth Cur, Red Blackmouth Cur, Ladner Blackmouth Cur, Ladner Yellow Blackmouth Cur. You will notice the familiar deceptive angle in the first photo that foreshortens the muzzle and makes it look more like a pit bull. This is another southern herding and big game hunting dog that does not look like a bully breed. They are common in parts of the south and very uncommon in other parts of the country.
Conclusion: Animal control will have no problem distinguishing a BLACK MOUTH CUR from a pit bull if they encounter one.

22. ALANO ESPANOL - D, E, F - This is the Spanish bulldog. The breed was originally used for bull baiting, hunting big game, guarding livestock and handling wild cattle. This ancient breed played an important role in developing several molosser dog breeds such as Dogue de Bordeaux and Presa Canario. These dogs have extremely powerful jaws. I found 3 breeder listings that were all dead links for the US.
Conclusion: Although the ALANO ESPANOL has a distinctive look, it could be easily confused with presa canarios and pit bulls. It is highly unlikely that animal control would encounter one in the United States. This dog is extremely rare and basically non-existent in the United States. However, it looks very similar to a pit bull because it was bred with the same foundation stock and for the same purposes. If I were crafting breed restriction laws, I would include it just because pit bull advocates always threaten if their pit bulls are restricted, they're going to inflict other dangerous breeds on the public.
BOERBOEL photos:
23. BOERBOEL - A, C, D, E, - As you can see, a deceptive photo of a very young puppy was used in the original test. Adult BOERBOEL look nothing like a pit bull. They are the most enormous mastiff type and weigh between 110 to 175 pounds and are also considered more athletic than other mastiffs. Like other large, dangerous breeds, these were nearly extinct until fanciers revived the breed in the 1980's. These are the South African mastiff bred to protect large farms and are extremely territorial and protective. They are known to have been crossed with bullmastiffs at one time. Their ancestry is largely unknown except that it is presumed that successive waves of settlers brought their biggest, fiercest mastiff-type dogs along with them to South Africa from many parts of the world.
Conclusion: The BOERBOEL will be immediately distinguishable from a pit bull by its size, body type, and mastiff head.
CA DE BOU photos:
24. CA DE BOU D, E, - also called Perro de Presa Majorquin, Mallorquin Bulldog - This bulldog was used for controlling bulls, baiting bulls, and dog fighting. Look at this link to see what one fancier thinks is the correct type of dog. It should not look too much like a bulldog, and looks almost exactly like a pit bull. I could find no breeders or dogs in the US.
Conclusion: This dog is extremely rare and basically non-existant in the United States. However, it looks very similar to a pit bull because it was bred with the same foundation stock and for the same purposes. If I were crafting breed restriction laws, I would include it just because pit bull advocates always threaten if their pit bulls are restricted, they're going to inflict other dangerous breeds on the public.
25. THAI RIDGEBACK - B, F, G, - There are 18 thai ridgebacks in the whole country available for adoption and 5 breeders that I can find.
Conclusion: They look nothing like pit bulls and are extremely rare.
Here is what the test would look like without the purposefully deceptive photos. Can you find the fighting dogs and dangerous breeds that should be banned?
Key: 1. Boxer 2. Dogue de Bordeaux 3. Alapaha Blue Bull Dog 4. Great Swiss Mountain Dog 5. Vizsla 6. Rhodesian Ridgeback 7. Dogo Argentino 8. Chocolate Labrador Retriever 9. Bullmastiff 10. Jack Russell Terrier 11. Fila Brasileiro 12. Rottweiler 13. Presa Canario 14. American Bulldog 15. Cane Corso 16. American Pit Bull Terrier 17. Patterdale Terrier 18. Olde English Bulldogge 19. Catahoula 20. Bull Terrier 21. Black Mouth Cur 22. Alano Espanol 23. Boerboel 24. Ca de Bou 25. Thai Ridgeback
Even with the less deceptive photos, the there still remain the problems of identifying a dog by one photograph and the improbability of encountering most of these breeds.
The breeds that are most confused with pit bulls are most often breeds that are
1. pit bull mixes
2. share the same foundation breeds and were bred for the same purpose.
3. also dangerous
4. often still crossed with pit bulls to this day

Other breeds that are included are
1. protective mastiff breeds
2. also dangerous
3. often crossed with pit bulls to this day.

Of course, this is simply a refutation of the 'Find a Pit Bull' game. What ACOs really need is a comprehensive guide book for dangerous dog breed and mix identification.


thebombshelter said...

Indeed, facts are stubborn things. But unless ALL THE FACTS are taken into consideration, how accurate are only a portion of "facts" Only sharing one side, could leave the end result very different then it really is.
This is exactly what the MEDIA has done. Many people are living in fear and with hate for the many breeds they call the Pit bull. The lies fly and the damage gets done.
Let's make the view a little bit wider.
First, I personally did not see anything tricky about the "identify the Pit bull" You mentioned the things you felt were done to make the dogs in the images all look similar. Then you went into further detail about how the Animal Shelter Employees will clearly know the difference between all of these breeds. This is just not true.
You can gather this evidence by visiting the adoption areas of the shelters. Stop by the San Diego, New York, Los Angeles County Shelters, or take a look at the Pet Finder web site, for a quick search with many results.
It is clear that the Animal Shelter Employees most often do not know how to identify some of the most common canines. If the dog has a block head, they are calling it a Pit bull mix. Spending a little time looking through the rescue and shelter pages, you will see why America's most popular dog are the Retrievers. I really wish they would just stop guessing. Their inaccurate guessing of breeds causes many problems on many levels.

And if the statistics are something you keep track of, keep this in mind, your breed statistics are not an accurate representation of the breed. They are a tally of a few dogs who behaved to some situation with extreme aggression.

There are hundreds of thousands of the Pit bull breeds that are starved, beaten, caught on fire, abused and neglected and have certainly earned every right to bite, YET, THEY BITE NOBODY! They die alone and nobody hears their stories. Why don't those dogs bite if the breed is bad? Open your eyes America. Educate yourselves.

If you are keeping track of the behavior of the Pit bull breeds, you need to include all of them. Hundreds of thousands live in households with children, other animals, they work in search and rescue, with law enforcement and have proven to be dependable, stable and loving canines. You need to include all these dogs in your statistics for the breeds in the Pit bull arena.

HUMAN irresponsibility, lack of education, abuse, poor breeding all contribute to a bad situation when a dog attacks a human. This is not the nature of this breed. The media makes sure we hear about each dog bite. It's a money making topic.

If you feel that the dogs mentioned in this blog are "dangerous", or maybe you did not feel that way till you read this blog. Rest assured, 99.9 % of dogs are not dangerous. If you think they are you are living in fear. Educate yourselves. There are about 54 million dogs living in the USA. The Pit bull is not the only dog in the radar. SO FAR, THERE ARE 75 BREEDS OF DOGS THAT ARE BANNED OR RESTRICTED IN THE USA.

If they take away the Pit bulls, do you think that will take away your fear??? Another dog will take its place. And another. This breed is stable, loving and smart. They should not be aggressive to humans, those that are should be put down.

Thanks for allowing me to express my thoughts on this blog.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

can you actually cite any references of those mythical 75 banned breeds or do you just continue to spread the propaganda through proof of assertion?

i have analyzed that list and the first problem is breed duplication. for example Alsatian and German shepherd are both listed. you do realize those are one and the same dog, right? this slight of hand trick occurs more often on this list than you think. plus there are breeds on that list that are found no where else EXCEPT on this list. if memory serves me correctly, the pug is also on that list. do you have any evidence that the pug has banned or restricted in anyway anywhere in the world?

so, regarding this dilemma you pose:
"I am collecting thoughts on what people would do if face with making a choice between two wrongs. What would you do when your values, morals and society are pulling you in different directions? What will become more important, what is more right or more wrong?"

since we agree that lying is wrong morally and often legally wrong, do you think it is okay to lie to win this pit bull debate? i personally would rather lose this debate than stoop to lying.

here is my theory about all of this canine racism bullshit: pit nutters are presenting this as a moral dilemma on equal footing with say the nazi slaughter of jews in an effort to elevate their cause that would excuse their lies. obviously lying to the nazis about a jew hiding in your attic is better than handing them over. the pit nutters want people to make this connection to justify their lies. just my opinion.

within a feint said...

"HUMAN irresponsibility, lack of education, abuse, poor breeding...."

There are far too many dogs of other breeds, as well as their mixes, who cause no harm to animal or human despite exposure to any one of these issues, a combination of some of these issues, or all of them together.

Let's face it folks - too many dog owners don't necessarily always do everything right. Many average dog owners do a lot that's wrong regarding the welfare of their pets. Many dogs come from questionable backgrounds. Many are the result of unscrupulous breeding circumstances. Many household dogs are unsocialized, under-enriched, ignored, under-exercised - and the vast majority manage to live in these less-than-ideal situations without harming those around them. So what gives with pit bulls?

Small Survivors said...

"First, I personally did not see anything tricky about the "identify the Pit bull" "

You seriously believe if you handed that photo of a pit bull to someone who'd never seen one before, they wouldn't think a pit bull was a small terrier? I don't believe a person armed with the original test and nothing else could ever identify a pit bull. So much for education.

Why are you talking about shelter employees? I'm talking about the people who would be tasked with enforcing BSL and would need to be able to identify pit bulls. These are aco and leo. They generally have more training and responsibility than shelter workers, are often required to take continuing education, and part of their education entails classes on animal identification and conducting an investigation.

It is only Ledy Vankavage and her helpers at the NCRC, created only to promote pit bulls, who suggest that all law enforcement and animal control officers are so incompetent and stupid that they can't perform their job, part of which is the ability to identify a pit bull.

I can identify a pit bull, craven can identify a pit bull, Bad Rap can identify a pit bull, Tia Torres can identify a pit bull, Animal Farm Foundation can identify a pit bull, and all the animal control officers and veterinarians on any of those dozens of Animal Cops shows on Animal Planet can identify a pit bull. Why can't you?

I not only said some of these breeds are dangerous, I linked to breeders who themselves often attest to the ferocity, aggressiveness, and "legendary bites" some of these dogs have. As you can see, I did educate myself. I just did not go to one-sided pit bull propaganda sites that hide the facts.

In addition to all the pit bulls killed by abuse each year, shelters euthanized up to 967,300 pit bulls in 2009, over half of all dogs. Shelters are spending lots of resources creating special pit bull training and rehabilitation programs in a vain attempt to make them decent family pets. They are failing. Pits are returned back to shelters in record numbers just to become one of the 967,300.

I also want you to produce the list of 75 breeds banned just in the US.

* said...

@ thebombshelter

The only people who seem confused as to what a pit bull is are the pit bull advocates. So for anyone who's really boggled by the appearance and history of the pit bull, here's a chart to help you out.

Jake said...

@Snack sized - I found a link detailing the 75 supposedly banned breeds, but it's not real. There is no law anywhere that declares these 75 breeds to be dangerous or banned (the list includes Labs, Pugs, St Bernards and other docile dogs. What the writer supposedly did is went around looking for any mention of any type of dog that is regulated anywhere, by anyone, for any reason and listed them all. It's an interesting exercise for those with too much time on their hands but it tells us nothing about any current or pending legislation.

All of the local BSL that I've seen list 5 breeds or so, but the one thing the lists I've seen all have in common is that pit bulls are on the list.

Here's a link with the details here

* said...

@ within a feint

"Let's face it folks - too many dog owners don't necessarily always do everything right. Many average dog owners do a lot that's wrong regarding the welfare of their pets. Many dogs come from questionable backgrounds. Many are the result of unscrupulous breeding circumstances. Many household dogs are unsocialized, under-enriched, ignored, under-exercised - and the vast majority manage to live in these less-than-ideal situations without harming those around them. So what gives with pit bulls?"

Enter the series I wrote called, "the forgiveness of dogs."

Pit bull advocates exploit the fact that several, not all, pit bulls are abused and thus presume that any pit bull who acts up was in some way abused and neglected. They fail to mention that many other breeds are under cared for and are equally abused in various circumstances and have had far less situations of mauling and killing people.

When this aspect is bought to light, that argument of theirs can easily crumble.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

this list of 75 dog breeds has been around for years. pit nutters mindlessly copy and paste it without even questioning it. i doubt most of them ever read it.
there are so many breed duplications and flat out fabrications. it's hilarious that it has gotten so much traction. it is slated for a blog post. pit nutters are the most gullible & desperate lot.

i have tried to trace its origin. it appears to go back to a washington state nutter breeder named cherie graves. she is the radical kook who started rdows (responsible dog owners of western states) which spun off into other regions.

Small Survivors said...


Thanks for the link. I haven't seen this list in a while. I thought nutters had stopped using it because it is so easy to smack down.

Looking at your link though, I see it is not really gone, and there's actually a lot more versions of it. The one I originally saw wasn't attributed to any organization and of course there are no citations showing where those dogs are banned.

I just went to the RDOWS site and read what the list consists of:

"in legislation either passed, proposed, or tabled in venues throughout the United States of America. The breeds are listed by name exactly as they appear in legislation. Redundancy, or misnaming is due to the wording of codes, and/or ordinances. Some breeds are named specifically, some breeds are included by physical description. All dogs are subject to being named."

This isn't even a list only of banned dogs, it includes dogs someone once at some time tried to get banned, but failed to do.

The weird breeds got in there because they said they will name specific breeds that fit the description when the ban specifies a description rather than breeds. So, "no dogs over 20 pounds" translates into Akbash.

They freely admit they're padding by including different names for the same dog and NON-EXISTENT breeds by saying they're listing just what the proposals said even if they know its wrong!

Notice it says "venues" - so this isn't only about municipalities, counties or states. It could be "no dogs allowed" ordinances for beaches, wildlife parks, bird sanctuaries, wilderness areas, zoos, arboretums, parks, stores, amphitheaters, boardwalks, botanical gardens, public housing, outdoor festivals, street markets, sidewalk sales, farmer's markets & etc...

It is a joke. Why don't they just sit down a list all dog breeds?

JaxCrax said...

It is interesting that this pro pitbull site presents mixes as examples of pitbulls:


Anonymous said...

This is why I don't trust Black people, they will all car jack you if you if given the opportunity, I always read about it! *smirk*

sjkBT said...

Where did you get your information to support your statement that "bull terriers are closely related to pit bulls"? Aside from throwing the Stafordshire Terrier into the mix in the 1920s, I've never read anything in the Bull Terrier history that would support the statement that Bull Terriers are closely related to pit bulls.


scurrilous amateur blogger said...

closely related to "pit bulls"? they ARE pit bulls, ie fighting dogs, ie gripping dogs.

One of the most unique dog breeds, the English Bullterrier was once commonly referred to as the "Canine Gladiator" in its native Britain, where it was created in the 1850\'s by Birmingham's John Hinks. A wide variety of bull-n-terrier type dogs had already existed in Britain when Hinks developed his own line using local fighting and hunting dogs, mostly working Staffordshire bulldogges and terriers, alongside the already existing fighting sensation known as the Paddington Bull Terrier, as well as the short-lived, but almost mythical creation under the name of English White Terrier. By combining the Paddington Bull Terrier and the English White Terrier with the Staffordshire dogs, Hinks established a line of fairly large and confrontational animals, with mostly black, brindle, red and piebald coats, which wasn't his goal, so a decision was made to incorporate more breeds into his efforts.

Kelly said...

I may be seen as a "nutter" on this but I believe the original "find the pitbull" exercise was not made as a "skills quiz" for animal control officers. Of course anyone who has training and /or even a basic understanding of dog breeds can tell a Rhodesian Ridgeback from a Pit Bull. Or would know the difference between a Jack Russel and a mastiff. However there are many people out there who do NOT know dogs and would report an issue with ANY of the above breeds as being with a Pit Bull. Sure there may be "deceptive" photos or photos of young or immature dogs, but these dogs are just as likely to be encountered by the general public as adult versions of their same breed. Could an inexperienced witness tell the difference between a young blackmouth cur and a pitbull? Would asking them to do so be "unfair" because it doesn't show a more typical adult body type? The point is that many people out there ARE misidentifying dogs as pitbulls. The question is not if Animal Control Officers can tell the difference .... it is if the general (often uneducated)public can.

Ro Martinet said...

I had no idea that bull terriers are in the Baby Eating group (gripping dogs)! I thought that they shared some distant ancestry with pit bulls, like boston terriers do (at least that is my understanding—I could be wrong—about the boston terriers, I mean). The preposterous, exaggerated egg-shaped skull made me assume that they had been designed exclusively for appearance and as a household pet for a very long time.
This info kinda rains on my parade—I have such fond early childhood memories of the Spuds Mackenzie dog—but it’s good to know. Thanks.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

bull terriers were originally used in the pit but like the boxer, but the breeders have been moving away from the blood sport.
the bull terrier is the victim of Sudden Onset Rage Syndrome.

Small Survivors said...

Bull terriers were THE original pit fighting dog. When Hinks and others began breeding fighting dogs for looks (originally all white, later the convex bridge) and calling them bull terriers, the dog fighters began referring to the fighting dogs as Staffordshire bull terriers - ie: bull terriers bred in the Staffordshire area.

The same thing happened with Fox Terriers. When they began breeding for the show ring and registered the dogs as Fox Terriers, breeders of working fox terriers began calling their dogs Jack Russell Terriers to distinguish the working fox terrier from the show fox terrier.

In both cases, the original name for the breed followed the non-working show dog and another name was taken to identify the working dogs.

In the case of the Bull Terrier, when Hinks began breeding for looks, he introduced other breeds into the Bull Terrier - people believe Dalmatian and later greyhound to get the white coat and the straight nose bridge. However, they remain gripping dogs and are known for their tenacity and their willingness to fight for that lovely "sudden onset rage syndrome."

Manda Malice said...

My husband is a First Responder in the Houston, Texas area. Since he joined the Fire Department in 2008 I do know of three cases were a dog attacked a child (Two resulted in the child dying) and Animal Control & First Responders originally mistake the dog for a "Pit Bull" type. It should be noted that in two of these cases the authorities did publicly corrected the mistake. 04/20/2010 A Rhodesian Ridgeback was later identified as the breed of the dog that bit a little girl in the face. (The area that it happened in is well known for dog fighting & the breeding of pit bull type fight dogs.) 12/20/2010 A Rottweiler was later was later identified as the breed of the dog that kill a 3 month old baby. 09/05/2011 A 10 day old infant was killed by what has been reported as a "Pit Bull". But my Husband, (Who was not on scene) has said it is now believed to be a "Lab Mix" type dog. I'm not disputing the facts you presented here. I'm a huge dork when it comes animals and pride myself on being a "Know-It-All" when it comes to knowing about breeds and I was also confused by a few of the dogs pictured. I just wanted to point out that sadly not all Animal Control are as trained as well as we would like to think they are.

Joan said...

You people are nuts.

Joan said...

You pit bull haters are unbelievable. Hating one thing for no good reason and you never ever talk about the other dogs that bite and/or kill. Shows just how hateful you are. That is what constitutes a racist. Poor dogs depending on humans to be kind to them. Thank goodness the majority of people out there have common sense and compassion and know the dogs aren't the problem. Hateful pit bull haters. Unbelievable.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed.
Bertrand Russell

joan, i am so glad that you are making your way through this entire blog. please be sure to check out karen delise's lies

regarding racism, you really have no legitimate claim of racism when it comes to dogs. dogs that are PROPERTY, bought, sold, traded, sterilized, muzzled & put on rape racks and chained. think before you speak.

Open minded said...

I see you still haven't posted my original question.Why not?

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

reasons why i didn't publish your comment:

1) because you are an anonymous nobody.
2) because i don't see any evidence that you read the blog posts.
3) because you are spouting the nanny dog myth.
4) because you didn't ask a real question.
5) because i don't like the arrogant and pretentious name that chose for yourself.
6) because i don't have to.
7) because you comment and question VIOLATE the no off topic policy. i have reprinted the comment policy below:

Comments must be on topic or they will not be published. Challengers are not only welcome, they are encouraged. If you wish to dispute any positions in this blog, you must provide objective, verifiable evidence.
These rules will be strictly enforced.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

actually i do enjoy discussions. here are your options:

1) adhere to rules of commenting

2) send me an email crvndesires@gmail.com

Open minded said...

Not sure what rules I haven't followed. This forum is about pit bulls and what types of dogs they are correct?

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

for the third and last time:

Comments must be on topic or they will not be published. Challengers are not only welcome, they are encouraged. If you wish to dispute any positions in this blog, you must provide objective, verifiable evidence.
These rules will be strictly enforced.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

Rochelle Jessie Miskanis, don't you have anything better to do with your time?